Interview with Dr Antonucci

Summary of the interview we did with Dr Antonucci, courtesy of a father-friend who likes to take notes, thanks R. !!!

Natalia makes an introduction about her titles, studies and collaborators, including Luc Montaigner, with whom she did a study on chronic bacterial infection in ASD.

His experience in the USA made him change what he had learned about it in Europe. In the USA it is treated as a disease that affects not only the brain but also other pathologies such as allergies, intestine, etc. that cannot be approached from psychology. In a treatable medical condition. His current view is that it is encephalitis due to external causes; it is an "environmental" disease of toxins in food, pollution, metals, OEM that affect the immune system which in turn does not allow normal brain development.

His way of approaching autism: he looks first at the symptoms, which can be various, aggressiveness, disturbed sleep, intestine (80% have symptoms in the intestine)... inflammation may be behind it and generates those symptoms (or vice versa?). They are children who suffer and externalize it with altered behaviors. First, then, ask about the symptoms and then ask for some simple tests such as an analysis to find out if they have anemia (low iron and ferritin), vitamin D3 (one of the ones they like the most, if there is a deficiency it can lead to mental retardation), thyroid avoid hypothyroidism because it also leads to mental retardation, look for information on inflammation, streptococcus, which is synonymous with chronic bacterial infection (as in PANDAS), Homocysteine as a marker of the methylation cycle, very important to determine detox capacity, kidney and liver. The latter also provides information on mitochondrial function and also on musculature. If there are symptoms of intestinal problems, you can request a coprological test and ask for a microbiome profile. Regarding the latter, he believes that it is enough to do candida and parasites because the pcr is still very expensive. Work with an Italian laboratory you trust, Doctor Data in the USA, etc. The CRP topic seems excessive to you and it can be confusing to find a lot of possible causes of the symptoms that in fact are not. You don't need too complex tests. Each of the pathogens can be discovered by symptomatology and behavior. For example, parasites: it is not very common to ask for parasite tests in feces because they do not usually come out; Prefer symptomatology. It is typical of parasitized children to put things in their mouths, and that a trick of the parasites is to release toxins that force the child to take more things contaminated with eggs to the mouth and thus perpetuate the cycle within the child.

In a sort of parenthesis, it also refers to lead causing them to put more plastic things in their mouths, which causes even more lead to come out (I'm assuming it's referring to the lead in the paint on plastic toys)

80 or 90% times that parasites are treated, these symptoms end. Other symptoms of parasites are bruxism, waking up at dawn especially around the full moon.

One way to know if you have chronic parasitosis is with an eosinophil test. He prefers such a test to a stool test to detect parasites but above all considering symptoms.

Another typical thing in autism is candida or spergillus and the like. Especially when they laugh for no apparent reason, also after eating refined sugars, carbohydrates, sugary drinks, cookies or pasta. The fermentation of carbohydrates generates symptoms such as drunkenness. The yeast generates many toxins that change their character from euphoria to tears in seconds; ditto with aggressiveness and sleep disorders (such as parasites).

He believes that if a test is done (although he repeats that it is not to ask for parasite tests), the PCR test is more decisive than a microscope. You do believe that treatments of a few days (3 or 4) of mebendazole or pyrantel pamoate, is enough and they are also not systemic, they are taken orally and come out with the stool, thus being very safe. In fact, it recommends repeating this protocol every 14 days.

Going back to the tests, to suggest the most basic ones: use the tests to detect chronic inflammation, metabolic deficiencies, parasites. Hair tests are usually cheap, non-invasive and detect metals (mercury, arsenic, aluminum, lead...)

He also talks about a metabolic test (porpherine test) of urine and two-thirds of 200 children tested are positive for heavy metals. The problem is that it gives many false negatives. Metal sources: consumption of fish and amalgams, especially mothers who have used amalgams in the 90s. He goes back to the hair test, he says that it is not the finest either. He says that since many children have an inappropriate detox metabolism to dispose of waste, this is not reflected in a hair test, so they may be intoxicated but have a negative hair test. Which means that what's going on is that it's building up in the body, especially in fatty tissues like the brain. Therefore the most sensitive and effective way to see the metals they affect is an intravenous provocation test (his preferred). It consists of using drugs such as DMSA, DMPS (specific for mercury), EDTA (specific for lead) to force the metals out through urine. It does it intravenously because in a single time that it is punctured, it is possible to see if mercury and lead come out, but if you use it orally or with suppositories, it implies that it is not as effective to know what metal is there (it does not make it clear).

Natalia asks if she's not worried about redistribution by doing it her way. He answers that redistribution is a false concept, that he does not believe that there is a transfer of metals from one fabric to another. I don't understand very well your explanation of the mechanism of the chelators, but I summarize that they leave both the body and the brain, and that as it is chelated, there will be less and less in the body and then in the brain (in that order) . What it does say is that the side effects that are observed are related to the sulfur of some chelators such as DMSA, DMPS and ALA, since it feeds the yeast. Therefore, the side effects are not due to the chelation itself, but due to the yeast symptoms, which in addition to those described above, add that the stools are yellowish and sometimes there is diarrhea. Yeast thrives when the immune system is depressed by heavy metals as it is opportunistic. Giving sulfur to Candida is feeding it. For this reason, when chelating, the yeast must be treated in parallel with antifungals, even if it is extended over time. Yeast can aggravate dysbiosis. For some children a antifungal treatment It is the best treatment because it also improves attention, aggressiveness, etc. Also, it is very safe. But he is in favor of pharmacological antifungals: he does not see the same results with natural ones (I think he says this). He says that with his described treatment he does not see the problem of side effects that are attributed to “redistribution”.

The reason in your opinion that the chelation popular is that you can make it at home with supplements, but they do not agree because people do not know the side effects described, of sulfur-yeasts. However, he says that for some children the mentioned sulphurs can do well, especially for those intoxicated by mercury, although not so much with lead; however, you have to worry about dysbiosis when giving sulfur.

It mentions the typical dose of DMSA 10mg/kg and DMPS is 3mg/kg (they are different molecules not comparable). He gives 2 mg/kg. To all this, I understand that up to date but it is not mentioned.

Your preference of IV method it is as the Mazuka Doctors did: it does not pass through the intestine and does not generate yeast-dysbiosis or inflammation. Well, using oral DMSA, even at small doses for a long time, aggravates dysbiosis.

If you have lead, only IV EADT can be used because the amount of sodium and calcium (ingredients/active ingredients) absorbed orally is only 5%. Thus, oral EADT can reduce the level of new toxins that enter the body through the diet, but it will not be able to take up the metals in the tissues, or the lead that usually accumulates in the bones. In short, EADT is one of the safest chelators that if you add them together with vit c and glutathione, they have a winning detoxifying complex.

It explains what a chelator is and its mechanism: it captures the metal molecule and, being hydrophilic, it comes out through the blood into the urine. IMPORTANT: Chelation is part of orthodox medicine and is not uncommon, although it is rare (because heavy metal poisoning is rarely diagnosed).

His procedure is IV of 10-15 minutes with a catheter and of course it is uncomfortable for a child, but it must be done because if not, in a few years it becomes a chronic disease with the repercussions that it entails. This is why forceful treatment is needed; "This is not homeopathy that can be used for specific symptoms"; it is more serious.

Brain inflammation and microglial activation.

He cites conclusions from studies (that we have seen) where autistics have been autopsied, microglial activation was observed. Glia are non-neuronal cells that belong to the CNS and the peripheral that we all have and are guardians of infections in the brain or anything that can harm the brain. When an infection appears in the brain itself or in another part, they are over activated and produce inflammatory substances, huge amounts of glutamate (excitatory neurotransmitter) which, consequently, over activate the brain creating excitotoxicity. But what activate the microglia of the brain?: It is produced by toxins from the polluted environment, not only heavy metals but anything, such as a bacterium, a fragment of a wall (toxic paint?) that activates the described mechanism. It can come from a pesticide, or a messenger of inflammation that comes from the intestine such as TNF alpha, IL-2 and various cytokines from the intestine (messengers of inflammation of the intestine that we can also find in the brain).

Other actors: the mast cells that are related to allergies. They work to protect us from any external factor that affects any of our surfaces (skin, surfaces in contact with the outside air, the mucosa of the gastrointestinal tract, etc…). He mentions Dr. Tevaridis (I think) a world eminence who explains it very well. When we eat foods with toxins, including those with gluten and casein, or toxins such as clostridium, bacteria, yeast… the mast cells explode and release dozens of markers of inflammation. And when these markers exceed a threshold value, they can go into the blood and activate mast cells in the brain (something like that). This is the communication between the environment (described toxic) and the microglia in the brain through the mast cells.

It turns out that if we block the mast cells in the brain, even if we give toxins, we would not have microglial activation. There is an experiment done on mice that shows that if the mast cells are blocked, the cascade of processes that come after and that lead to inflammation are interrupted. That is why it is so important to eliminate intoxications that activate mast cells.

Tests and markers

There are no specific tests to detect the activation of mast cells/microglial, it could only be done with a brain biopsy, but it is not possible. A blood test with tnf alpha and IL-2 can indicate that there is brain inflammation. Microglial activation is also common in other neurological diseases such as Alzheimer's, and in fact some medications are also used successfully for autism.

• TNF-alpha:

The preferred marker is TNF alpha for at least a signal that something is going on in the brain and gut (but hints that it's not entirely reliable either).

• EAP:

It is a supplement that elevates endogenous cannabinoids. In other words, it directly affects the cannabinoid receptors but also generates molecules that counteract inflammation (or something like that), when, for example, a bee stings us and the immune system acts to remove the toxins from the poison, when this process has finished, to reset everything and return to normality is where the PEA comes in: counteract the inflammation and return to the starting state (a reset). Cannabinoid receptors are found throughout the body (skin, lungs, intestine…). The only tissue where there are no cannabinoid receptors are neurons. It is not a treatment (pea) that activates the neurons, but the cells that activate the neurons. Microglia are full of these receptors. In short, it is a very good molecule to reduce inflammation. It is a good inhibitor of mast cells. Another supplement that works very well with pea is luteonin. Dr. Tevarideis (I think) is an expert and works with both of them to inhibit mast cells. The supplement is called in Italy glialia. What makes it special in this case is that it is ultra-micronized, that is, they use nanotechnology to compress the molecules below a nanogram, so that the BBB can pass. If you take a PEA that has not been prepared according to this process, it will not even be absorbed by the intestine. If you want a non-ultra-micronized PEA that is on the market and that is absorbed, it should either be IV or take a large amount so that a small amount passes through. Also paradoxically, it is good to have leaky gut (normal in our children). Therefore, what makes the supplement that Italian has mentioned special is that it can cross both the intestinal wall and the BBB. It is also anti-convulsions (used for these children), anti-inflammatory, chronic damage, obsessions, hyperactivity. It is a simple and effective product to treat all that.

He insists on the point that the PEA may not work for many people because it is not being absorbed properly (see Clavera's PEA!). In fact, all researchers use pea IV in animals because they know that only in this way is absorption adequate to draw their conclusions. There are no marker-type indicators from which to conclude that the ea is working, except for the symptoms.

It is recommended not to start with many substitutes at once

to know where the changes come from.

• Glialia is a supplement that can be stopped long-term.

• Luteonin: He does not believe that there is a genetic polymorphism that determines whether or not to use luteoinin.

• Nootropics:

They are pharmacological molecules or supplements that act on the receptors of the neurons that stimulate their growth and development. But it is a second step; First, before using them, you have to remove toxins and cleanse, refine your diet so that no more toxins enter, reduce allergic reactions... when the brain has been cleaned, then it is time to implement neuronal development with nootropics. In his experience, the best nootropic is citicoline, a precursor of acetylcholine that acts in areas of the brain related to language, understanding and learning. Since the gut-brain axis is through the vagus nerve (gut-brain axis), they also have anti-inflammatory effects. That is, it has both effects: on the functions of the brain and intestine. He mentions some products but I can't understand only lion's mane, how natural remedies that have an effect on the citicoline receptor and also on the GABA receptor that inhibit the activation of glutamate (excitatory). There are (Russian) neuropeptides that have stimulating effects to promote brain development, such as picamilon, cerebrolysin, etc. Some are effective quote one. However, he does not have a good impression of cerebrolisin although he does not have much experience. He knows about patients from Russia, he does not like that it is injectable: he prefers something more effective and less invasive than cerebrolysis.

The spray version of cerebrolisin is not familiar to you either, but if you like the spray method with other products like air -g- tree (sounds like that but isn't spelled like that) on the market made up of Korean red ging seng extract also for inflammation cerebral. He also mentions nasal oxytocin, which is widely used for cases of pathological shyness, especially in adolescents. It works very well to promote social skills and spontaneous language (the nasal form). He mentions that it can be given a lot of time to avoid regression.

• Stem cells:

He has collaborated with Dr Bradstreet, a genius in the field of stem cells in autism, also with FMT who was a pioneer. The use of Gcmaf together with Ruggiero, etc. (mentions curiosities such as the use of parasites to reduce inflammation). A pioneer. Antonucci followed him, and was studying things in Cancun and kyiv, Panama. But he has been a bit disappointed with the CM results (although they seemed good at reducing inflammation), he puts them in the 10% environment which he finds quite disappointing for how expensive and invasive it is. He believes that from a theoretical point of view it has potential, but it still does not give better results than other simpler and cheaper therapies. He adds that he would not currently recommend it and that if he did, it would be the last thing. He mentions that the hyperbaric chamber has known a 80% of children who improve and then he also mentions another 80% of improvement in a treatment that I don't understand.

• Gcmaf:

It is a normal protein in our body that in large doses produces anti-inflammatory effect of microglia. It is a macrophage activating factor. It turns out that microglia are macrophages that change shape but maintain their macrophage status. They are the first target of the gcmaf. For him, the best treatment against brain inflammation is gcmaf, whose effect is immediate. His experience is that his children's 70% notice improvements. Although apparently it is not easy to find lately, his colleague dr Ruggiero has developed a synthetic one called immuno. You have seen that it has the same effect as traditional gcmaf. It is the combination of the active part of gcmaf (mention 3).

Why are there more neurons in torches? It turns out that the research reveals that in teas there is less local connectivity between neurons but more of them. Mercury prevents neurons from producing very long nerves, thus reducing the connection of long nerves between different parts of the brain. The connection is cut.

Is autoimmune encephalitis the possible cause of autism?: Yes; there are a few children who have autoimmune disorders, some of which are known why: he cites, for example, PANDAS as a "new" disease due to autoimmunity caused by chronic infections that requires specific treatment. He believes that for these children (I understand that not in general, with autoimmune disorders, not just pandas) it is to treat them with IV immunoglobulin although it is not easy to find doctors who treat him.

Have you found links between the herpes virus and autism? Yes. Some children have inflammation caused by DNA-type viruses, such as herpes, herpes zoster, HH VIRUS 6,CMV, EBV. Recommend pcr test for viruses. There are children who do well with antivirals such as Valacyclovir.

His healing rate mentions it but I don't get it. The first thing is to eliminate suffering because these children suffer, then it is to seek to stimulate their self-sufficiency, language skills, fine-tune the diet avoiding toxins that enter through there (he mentions improvements of 90% only with diet), inflammation, intoxication, etc.

Consultation with foreigners. He speaks English and Russian (he spent several years in Ukraine). Talk on Skype with people from far away. Information can be found on their website.

Autism is treatable because it is a disease. Cheer up!